The meeting will be open to all neighbors of Wedgewood-Houston .... [it] will include an update on the status of the fairgrounds property and ideas for continuing to make the neighborhood's voice heard throughout the planning process.
The Metro Council voted earlier this month for the development of a master plan for not only the fairgrounds property but also for the surrounding residential and business areas - including the Wedgewood-Houston neighborhood. Under the legislation, the Tennessee State Fair will continue at the property through 2012, and the flea market and expo center will continue indefinitely.
The legislation does not address operations at the Fairgrounds' Speedway. The decision to lease the track for future events rests in the hands of the Fair Board, which has said it will discuss the master plan at its March 1st meeting (upstairs in the grandstand offices starting at 8 am).
The meeting is open to all residents of the Wedgewood-Houston community. For information on getting a ride, call (615) 669-SNAP.
It bears mentioning that Colby Sledge is not just a SNAP leader, but he also handles PR for the State Senate Democratic Caucus, and he works
WSMV reporter Nancy Amons recently reported that SNAP discussions about the Fairgrounds were closed to the press and to other outsiders. Hence, it comes as no surprise that this meeting is only open to the Wedgewood-Houston community. There have been reports that there was considerable opposition to SNAP in District 17 at the last council public hearing on the Fairgrounds, and I would be curious to see how SNAP handles any that might show up to this meeting.
Will this be an open forum that allows diverse feedback from the local community around the Fairgrounds to inform a grassroots strategy or will it be--as in the recent past--more of a top-down and secretive strategizing process?
It's pretty difficult to call a meeting that was voted on by our board, announced two weeks in advance, and advertised with three emails and more than 500 flyers passed out in our entire neighborhood a secretive process.
You also seem to be unfamiliar with the legislature, as Sen. Haynes is not the Senate Democratic Caucus chair, and is not my boss. The bill you mention is a caption bill, brought as it is every year by the Tennessee State Fair Association, which Sen. Haynes sits on. The board is bipartisan, includes the current and former agriculture commissioners, and members have publicly stated that they want to make the state fair a truly statewide event while keeping it in Davidson County.
Finally, SNAP serves the Wedgewood-Houston community. A SNAP meeting is, by default, a meeting for the Wedgewood-Houston community. That's about as open as you can get.
If you're going to talk about our neighborhood from the other side of downtown and write about our residents, you can at least talk to them. That doesn't have anything to do with journalism or blogging; that's just common decency.
I have been asked to facilitate this discussion and I can assure you that it will be an open forum specifically for residents that live in the Wedgewood Houston area.
One of the reasons that I have been asked to do so is that I have no dog in this hunt. I have only a passing knowledge of the events that have occurred in the past related to the Fairgrounds. This may prove problematic in some ways, but there are benefits to this lack of knowledge as well. The biggest benefit is that I can say, "We are not here to focus on the past conflicts and claims. We are at this meeting today for those of you in this neighborhood to decide what you want to do going forward."
We will discuss empirical facts such as the actions that Council has taken and the master plan. We will NOT be rehashing who should or shouldn't have done or said something differently.
With regard to the focus on residents from the Wedgewood Houston neighborhood, it isn't about having meetings that are exclusionary or secretive. It is about ensuring that the voices of the residents present are not drowned out by others that are not in the neighborhood. This is an opportunity for residents to determine if they can come to a united vision related to the fairgrounds or not. It makes sense for them to be able to do so before meeting with stakeholders from other parts of town about this issue.
I hope those folks out there with a passion about this issue who do not live in the neighborhood will respect this desire to hear the voice of the immediate neighbors. Should individuals from other parts of town attend, they will be asked to simply observe.
On a side note, I received a letter today from several individuals who have created a Wedgewood Houston Neighborhood Association and indicate that they are separate entity from SNAP. I can only assume I received the letter because I have agreed to facilitate this meeting. I hope residents from this newly formed organization will consider attending tonight. Perhaps there is more common ground to be found than people have been led to believe.
How can Carol say that she does not have a dog in this hunt? She works with (and maybe for) Mike Hodges at the Nashville Neighborhood Resource Center. Hodges has been very public about his anti-racetrack, anti-fairgrounds stance.ReplyDelete
The NRC lost all clout when they started accepting money from the Metro government.
I hope that everyone can understand that the views of an individual are often separate from their employer and co-workers. Mike Hodge has an individual view about the fairgrounds. It is not a view of the Neighborhoods Resource Center, nor is it a view of mine. He is my co-worker. Do you believe everything your co-workers believe?ReplyDelete
I will say that I have had brief contact with neighbors in the Wedgewood Houston area when I knocked on doors in the neighborhood back in 2006 to learn more about resident concerns. The racetrack was a frequent discussion, particularly the feeling that it had gotten much louder over the years. Has that experience shaped my opinion? A little bit. I don't claim to have knocked on all or even a majority of doors, however. So I don't claim to know what the community as a whole believes.
NRC as an organization believes in neighborhood self-determination, pure and simple. That is the approach I am coming from. The residents who come out tonight will get to help shape what actions SNAP takes in the future.
NRC hasn't received Metro funding for several years. So, Anonymous, you are going to have to go knit your conspiracy quilt somewhere else.
I live on Belmont Blvd., just blocks from the fairgrounds. I've lived on Belmont for 12 years. I've lived inside of the Woodmont Blvd and 21st Avenue area for 25 years. Basically, I've lived in the same neighborhood for half of my life. And by choice. I remember when the only place to eat downtown was The Spaghetti Factory and Faison's was the first real restaurant and bar in The Village (thank you Jodi Faison). I remember when Laurell's had the guts to move from 2nd Ave to 12th South. It was the restaurant that made people think twice about! 12th South. Today, the area is rocking. All I talk about happened organically. It did not happen because previous mayors decided to knock down buildings and replace then with new buildings. I understand people being suspicious of SNAP. I am. Why haven't SNAP people ever spoken to me? I'm part of that neighborhood. I'll tell you why. SNAP is a product of the Dean administration. It is all PR. A close friend of mine, Jim Hester, and Dean advisor used to live near the fairgrounds. Hester appointed(or recommended) his former employer, Ned Horton, who lives near the fairgrounds and who was/is involved in property transactions within a half mile of the fairgrounds to the Fairgrounds Committee. Horton wants to tear it all down (fairground/raceway). I have inside info (told to me by Hester): Weeks after Dean was elected, Hester told me over drinks at Mafioso's that "The faigrounds is a done deal. It's gonna be torn down." So, yes. I am VERY suspicious of SNAP. I will go on record with any reporter in Nashville with regard to my statements on this post. You can find me on Facebook. What I believe is this: Karl Dean and his administration are playing any game and telling any lie to get their way. So, SNAP folk, I suggest you distance youselves from Dean and all SNAP "leaders." He is using you. Just re-read what I just said. Start a new group and invite people like me to join. Yes, I want to keep the fairgrounds and raceway. But I also care about our neighborhood and my neighbors. If I had my way, we'd be bowling at the Melrose Lanes.ReplyDelete
Mr.Barner, SNAP has been around since the early 1980's. The last time I checked Karl Dean was not Mayor then.ReplyDelete
Hey Anonymous. Sign your name. Tell me who you are. My name is Boyer Barner. I live at 2713 Belmont Blvd. I have the cajones to state my opinion, sign my name and offer to go on record with any legit reporter who will contact me. Even if SNAP has been around as long as you say it has, I submit that Mayor Dean has taken advantage of the group for political and PR reasons. I respect those who live very close to the fairgrounds. I happen to live near them. Dean and his PR-driven administrarion think that they can take the voices of those who support the administration's cause and amplifly them in a way that will help Dean achieve his selfish goals.ReplyDelete
I drove up Allison Place the other day. The street is six blocks from the fairgrounds. In a frontyard I saw a sign that read, "I support our fairgrounds."
Again, I will go on record with regard to my previous statements.
I love Nashville and my neighborhood. I will stand up for my beliefs with the risk of losing friendships and busiiness opportunities. The fact that you hide behind 'anonymous' is pathetic.
Mr. Barner, I can only assume you didn't attend the meeting tonight, because if you had, you would have seen a diversity of opinion with regard to the future of the fairgrounds and not a single person who identified themselves as a supporter of the Mayor's plan. The main sticking point is with regard to the racetrack and people discussed that matter in a civil way despite their differences. Most residents indicated a desire for the Flea Market and other attractions to stay. There was unanimity with regard to the need for better maintenance of the property. I am hopeful this is the beginning of a continuing discussion about what residents would like to see there so that THEY can determine the future of the property rather than politicians or other moneyed stakeholders.ReplyDelete
Carol: in fairness to the other side, this diversity you speak of is not something that has been communicated by SNAP, whose leaders have claimed to speak for the neighborhood at public meetings.ReplyDelete
In November Keith Moorman stood beside the Mayor at a video-replayed press conference and said that he supported the Mayor's plan to move the Expo to Hickory Hollow. As a SNAP representative he said that building a second Green Hills at the Fairgrounds was the goal. In December Colby Sledge stood at the first Fairgrounds public hearing and told the council he supported the move of the Expo to Hickory Hollow.
After the Expo exile scheme was defeated (did it ever have the support of the neighborhood?), both Moorman and Sledge shifted their support to the Mayor's next plan to tear down the racetrack even after Karl Dean had called "time out" to look at the options again. SNAP leadership simply and cynically shifted their support with the change in political winds blowing out of the Mayor's Office.
At the last public hearing on the Fairgrounds Vice Mayor Diane Neighbors allowed SNAP proponents to line up in any order they pleased. The 35 or so who spoke, did not show a diversity of opinion in the neighborhood, but spoke with one voice. But then, VM Neighbors required race track preservationists to line up in an unprecedented order that left District 17 residents who disagreed with SNAP out in the cold. Diversity of opinion was sabotaged at that public hearing. SNAP leaders didn't divulge their lower-than-hoped-for petition numbers until just before the council vote.
There never was a nod or even mention of diversity coming from SNAP leaders. I don't blame the other side for suspecting attempts to quell dissent to the Mayor's ever-shifting plans to tear down and privatize the Fairgrounds.
I waited this controversy out a long time before I chose a side. In fact, I would have preferred never to have taken a side, but the stink from this question just kept growing. My own criticism and suspicion of SNAP's motives are based on feedback coming in for years from various sources that I've concluded are credible.
Mike, I don't doubt what you say. As I said, I don't know the history and I kind of prefer it that way. We can "he said / she said, he did / she did" all day and not accomplish anything.ReplyDelete
I am hopeful that those who care about this issue will recognize that there is a different leadership at SNAP now and that their primary goal is to be representative of the whole community. What happened last night is that people finally listened to each other. There is still a lot of work to do, but I think this new beginning could lead to a strong and unified voice for neighbors if they continue to meet, listen, and search for common ground.
The fate of the fairgrounds and raceway is not for the neighborhoods surrounding them to decide. Yes, the neighbors should have input. This input should have to do with issues pertaining to the operations of the facilities. For instance: parking, traffic, signage and hours of operation, to name a few.
The fairgrounds property is of state-wide and regional concern. It has been for decades. It is much like any municipal or state operation. I present our airport, LP Field and Warner Park (home of the Iraquois Steeplechase, which sees horses from several states).
The flea-market is regionally known. In SoHo (Manhattan) I met a vintage shop owner who said he came to our flea market twice a year. The raceaway in years past (when the promoters had a long-term contract)had racing teams that came from as far north as Toronto, Canada as well as New York state, Florida and Kansas.
We would not let the neighborhoods surrounding our airport to determine its fate. Yes, they should be heard and taken into consideration.
Carol, how long have you lived in Nashville? And how long have you lived in the fairgrounds area? You are living downtown - 'big' city stuff. Like noise from VUMC helicopters that I hear every night. Or fireworks from neighbors. Or Harleys.
To be honest, your 'tone' sounds condescending. You sound like a damn politician. Yeah, full if s**t.
I meant full OF s**t.
In a previous post I spoke of the organic growth of 12th South. It happened on its OWN. Neither committees nor neighborhood groups made it happen. It happened because people dove in and took risks to open a business. Others renovated homes and moved in. Or sold them. I saw it hapen over 25 years because I live there.
It is now time for the fairgrounds and raceway to be reborn. As a new fairgrounds and a raceway that WILL be The Ryman of Raceways, this will be an organic step. Something real. Nashville will be the only city with a downtown short-track. Our car races can be like boxing from Vegas. Maybe shown on HBO or ESPN. It ties in with country music. The Nashville Auto Diesel School. Nissan. And it ties in with me, because I'll go those races, right here, in Nashville, Tennessee.
Think about the dad and two sons who live off of 12th South. And go they go to races. The sons love it. Dad can afford it. Music Row only pays so much. The kids race go-carts. Join BoyScouts. Get older. One goes to Curb School of Music to study music biz at Belmont. One goes to race for Curb's racing team. One brother wins a Grammy. The other, he wins the Daytona 500. Yeah. Let's tear down the track. And Belmont. And Brown's Diner. And Melrose Bowling Lanes (oops) and the Bi-RIte.
First, it is absurd to compare living next to an airport and living next to a racetrack. An airport provides a civic propose of moving goods, products, and people all over the US and World. Cities have to have airports in order to be able to function they don't have to have a racetrack in order to keep the city moving. Can you imagine what the economy would be like without airports? Also, I once lived next to the Burbank, CA airport and I have lived next to the fairgrounds racetrack for several years now and there is no comparison between the noise from an airport and the noise from a racetrack. I would much rather hear the noise from the airplanes than the noise from the racecars. Our neighborhood is noisy enough without the racetrack. We hear the planes flying overhead, trains, sirens, commercial trucks, and etc. but all that noise only last a few minutes not three, four, or five hours at a time with virtually no break in the noise. Since you have been living here for so long why have you and others like you allowed the fairgrounds property to fall into such a dilapidated condition? (And don't blame the fair board because that is really no excuse at all) Why are you now throwing your hands up and saying don't take the fairgrounds away when others are saying do something with the property? To me it is a little ridiculous and hypocritical for anyone who is a life long resident of Nashville or has been living here for substantial amount of time to say keep the status quo on the property because you all have had years to improve the property and have failed to keep the property up not to mention the racetrack promoters have continued to be bad neighbors. If the fairgrounds property was something that all Nashville residents truly cared about it would not be in the condition that it is in today. If anything the people ought to be thanking Mayor Dean and the nearby neighbors for bringing the issue to the for front. I think we can all agree the process and the way the City has handled this issue has not been ideal but it has opened a dialogue for the actual residents of Nashville to discuss and debate this issue and what the future holds for the property. I'm not personally attacking you I just have my opinion on the life long Nashvillians that are emotionally attached to the property just like you all have opinions of people who have recently moved to Nashville and want to see something that benefits the community more on the property.
If Mayor Dean really intended to bring the conditions of the Fairgrounds to the fore, he has had plenty of opportunities since 2007 to do so, especially during Metro budget discussions. IMO, the Mayor's 2010 timing for selling off the non-flood-risk portions of the Fairgrounds property to private real estate developers has more to do with raising sales taxes to pay for his expensive capital pet projects elsewhere and with garnering re-election favors, especially with corporate donors (keep in mind his intention is to build a corporate campus, which would increase polluting auto traffic into South Nashville). The truth of the matter is that the Mayor's Office has always had final control over the neglect of the property and the inattention to the community plan that represented the aspirations of the neighborhoods.ReplyDelete
It's amazing to me that some of the spin on this story turns Karl Dean into a hero who had little power over the Fairgrounds until recently. The whole bully pulpit narrative is just wrong. The Metro Charter establishes a strong executive, which is exactly what Mayor Dean has been over the languishing Fairgrounds.
It is amazing to me that people who are still experiencing sour grapes over the convention center are opposed to the fairgrounds because the Music City Convention Center is being built. Some folks especially certain members of council have used the fairgrounds issue to get revenge for the Music City Convention Center and the only people that will suffer because of this is the tax payers of Nashville. The Music City Convention Center is being built so get over it! There will be a public referendum on the fairgrounds issue in August and it will be Karl Dean vs. whatever candidates run on a status quo fairgrounds platform. If you want to keep the status quo at the fairgrounds vote against Mayor Dean and if you want to see progress at the fairgrounds vote for Mayor Dean. It's pretty simple.ReplyDelete
Because giving credit to those of us who oppose the Mayor's privatization schemes because of our genuine commitments to community development would be too much to ask of brave anonymous trolls.ReplyDelete
What genuine commitment do you have for community development? I drove by Jefferson Street and the new apartments that are being built at Jefferson and 5th are making progress. Did you support that development? If you don't like people posting on here anonymously change the settings on your blog. I guess the authors of the federalist papers should not have been allowed to write anonymously. If you showed some respect for anybody who doesn't share the same opinion as you maybe more folks would post their names on this blog. Calling people trolls because they disagree with you is not a very friendly and professional way to get people to post their names.ReplyDelete
Anonymous, maybe you should move back to CA. Where you can be truly anonymous. Btw, I didn't let the fairgrounds fall into bad shape. It's been neglected by our city gov and is a viictim of bad management. Also, improving it means an updated raceway and fairgrounds center. Face it, the area is funky. When I came to Vanderbilt to attend school in 1981, there was a famous BBQ joint right next tot the fairgrounds called Coursey's. It had a cinder block building and dirt floors. An updated raceway and fairgrounds is the best approach. You should read the latest Scene. There's an article on the Sawtooth building located near the fairgrounds. Author Christine Kreyling states the the city really has no business pushing development. She says it should be organic. Like that stuff you bin smokin.ReplyDelete
Blame someone else other than the long time residents. The only people to blame are those who have sat back and watched the property decay. Griffin Technology renovated the Saw Tooth Building and it is now their new office. Someone from Griffin spoke at the public hearing in January in support of developing the fairgrounds. Are you going to pay for the updated fairgrounds and raceway? If not who is? And once you update and make it into this wonderful facility that everyone wants to come to where are you going to put everyone? There is not enough land for that to happen.
What happened to you?
I see you have no argument. You should move back to where ever you came from. Or, join in and get what this town is all about. Dean, Megan Barry, the King. Wimp Rich Riebeling and Jim 'chii chi' Hester are all Latte Liberals set to turn our city into cities they read about. They don't appreciate organic growth. And oh yeah, I should add Ronnie Steine, the thief. All the aforementioned are thieves. They want to steal the soul of our city.
Anonymous. A group of investors has proposed to invest substantially in the fairgrounds and raceway. It is " shovel ready" to say the least. Like those who invested in the Sawtooth building, they are ready to invest in the existing structures and maked the needed improvements. It's obvious you haven't lived herre long. Are you ever gonna come out from under your rock and sign you posting? Your arguments are weak. And rather whiny, btw.ReplyDelete
The lack of civility in these posts is not helping anything.ReplyDelete
The Fairgrounds remains the ONLY, yes, THE ONLY property owned by Metro("The People") that makes any money or does not cost tax payers any money.
That is a true and factual statement.
The Fairgrounds has been losing money from its operations fund(Savings) because Metro has been charging the Fairgrounds, an enterprise fund based entity, outrageous fees for things like leases on aged golf carts that have been paid for many times over.
Did you know that Metro charges $27.00 for EVERY invoice that is paid?
The metro service fees combined with poor management, The Fairgrounds savings being combined with Metro money at a Much lower return rate, and a financial director that budgets the property for a loss on an annual basis is a big problem that needs to be corrected immediately!
The Fair Board decided that they didn't have the knowledge to run a fair. So they threw up their hands, farmed out the Fair to "Friends" of the Mayor, and turned the keys to the place over to the city. Many feel that these moves were unethical and probably illegal.
If you don't feel you have the knowledge to run a fair, don't except the position instead of farming it out to the lowest bidder. A low bid in excess of $150,000.00 less than the high bid.
The Mayor claims that the racetrack didn't make much money last year. I believe he said $22,500.00.
The Mayor appointed Fair Board turned down a $50,000.00 cashiers check for a lease on the track in favor of 5 individual event permits for $3,500.00 each and a few other lower rent events.
A difference of $27,500.00 of income that the Mayor appointed Fair Board turned away.
We are now at $177,500.00+ of guaranteed revenue that was denied the property.
Sound. I agree that the past promoters before Tony Formosa did not take proper action pertaining to the sound issues.ReplyDelete
With the very late start date offered by the Fairboard last season, there was no time to implement a sound abatement program.
Tony Formosa has been working diligently with manufactures of muffler systems that will make a dramatic difference in db levels in the future. They need to be tested.
With that said, The Fair Board had many opportunities to do their job, listen, act on, and manage the sound situation.
They did nothing.
They had the opportunity to write sound abatement/mufflers into the lease requirements and chose to do nothing. Much like they did nothing to try to make the Fairgrounds and its events a success.
The issue of noise and operation hours needs to be addressed. guidelines need to be followed.
Given the opportunity, these things will happen and you can bet your bottom dollar that it will not be because of anything that the Mayor appointed Fair board has done to solve the issue. It will be done by the promoter and the race community. A community that is resolute on being better neighbors.
A community that has NEVER had any more say in policy at the Fairgrounds than the citizens of district 17, Metro Nashville, or surrounding counties.
I bring up the surrounding counties because much emphasis has been placed on the out of county residents that join our many in county residents in spending hundreds of thousands of dollars annually in Davidson county as a part of racing. Let's not leave out the out of towners that take part in Flea Market and expo events and help in the Fairgrounds $50,000,000.00 to $60,000,000.00 in annual economic impact.
These are HUGE numbers folks!
We are talking about these kinds of numbers being generated in spite of poor management practices and a fleecing of the Fairgrounds funds.
Can you imagine what kind of money the Fairgrounds could generate if it was embraced by the Mayors office and managed properly?
Many have posted that these out of county residents do not have a say in the matter.
If that is the case, the Chamber of Commerce, a multi county voice that is heavily funded by Metro($10,500,000.00+) should not have a voice in what happens with the Historic Fairgrounds.
The Fairgrounds is a part of the rich history of Nashville. It should be embraced as such and have the resources approved to ensure that it is a part of our community, our culture, and our city fiber for generations to come.
Try to be civil to one another, Please.
Take a look at the pdf of the proposed master plan on the Save My Fairgrounds site. Www.SaveMyFairgrounds.com
You will find a comprehensive plan that is ecologically sound, provides park and recreation area, walking paths, a mitigated Browns Creek, Solar panels, Wind generators, Electric car charging stations, an updated arena, a great deal of pavement removed, rain gardens to filter asphalt run off, an absorbing sound barrier around the track, and may other Eco friendly, citizen friendly upgrades.
A couple of citizens, one from in county, one from outside of the county, have stepped up and offered to make hefty contributions to updating the Fairgrounds if a long term lease and plan for the Fairgrounds survival is implemented.
Coupling these funds with the $2,000,000.00 in Metro funding that has been approved for the park space, and the funds provided by TSMP (TN. Stream Mitigation Program) for Browns Creek, The Fairgrounds would be well on its way to becoming a showcase for our City and State. It is my hope that once this process is underway, other citizens will contribute to seeing the Fairgrounds be updated and preserved for generations to come.
And the Oscars go to Carol, for Best Politician. I will accept the the Oscar for Best Silent Movie for Anonymous, because no one knows who he is. Karl Dean wins best actor for his role as The Joker in Batman Goes to Nashville. Best supporting actor goes to Rich Riebeling as Gordon Gecko in Broad Street Battles Godzilla and The Three Stooges. Neither Dean nor Riebeling will be nominated for True Grit.ReplyDelete
Anonymous, Your statement: " I just have my opinion on the life long Nashvillians that are emotionally attached to the property just like you all have opinions of people who have recently moved to Nashville and want to see something that benefits the community more on the property." is worth discussion .ReplyDelete
1.It appears that you are painting all supporters of the Fairgrounds as Life long Nashvillians. There are indeed a great number of Nashville natives that are speaking out against a plan to destroy a part of Nashville history . Many transplants to Nashville also support the Fairgrounds.
Your statement eludes that the only reason Fairgrounds supporters want the Fairgrounds to stay is emotional tie. You have ignored the Millions of dollars in economic impact annually that the Fairgrounds produces. A huge part of the fight to save, refurbish, and properly manage the Fairgrounds is based on our cities dire need for income to help pay for the massive outlays of tax dollars for new capital projects. Income that the Fairgrounds provides.
2. The second part of your statement eludes to newer Nashvillians wanting to see something that benefits the community more done with the property.
Let me ask you how a corporate campus benefits the community more that the most diversely used piece of property in the entire state?
Answer, please, how any other use of the property does more to benefit the community of Nashville Tennessee than it's current use that hosts over 1.2 million visitors annually?
A property that hosts events to boost our small business engine, provides affordable entertainment, affordable expo space for small business and organizations, and raises countless dollars in donations and public awareness for charitable causes
that benefit not only Davidson county but, people world wide?
Please tell us what can be put in its place that will benefit the community more.
Office space is not the answer. Davidson county is nearing the 30% mark in available office space.
I look forward to your response and would hope that you will step out of the shadows and use your real name.
Boyer, I appreciate your passion but, calling people out, using vile language, and being a smart ass is not helping.
I would ask you to be Be kind, be respectful, and try to present your case in a civil manner.
Folks, I know this is an issue that brings a lot of passion to the table. We may agree to disagree on certain points but, we should treat one another with respect.
Shane, I'll start behaving. That said, I think this thread went over the top from the very beginning. Yeah, my language was colorful at times, but so was some of the logic tossed about by others. I just peppered it up. Guess I've been watching to much Fox News. I appreciate your comments. I've seen your postings elsewhere and I have to say that you have a great grasp on the issue. You also approach this things in a 'non-partisan' way. I also apprciate the editor of Enclave letting us have fun and getting 'down on the mat.' Political discourse is meant to be lively. I'm done with this thread. My thumbs hurt. To everyone I may have insulted: thank you for being involved!ReplyDelete